I have been a user of Solar Accounts for five years.
Today I noticed a post on these forums. It lists the differences between on-line and off-line versions of Solar Accounts. The information provided is causing me some major concern.
Let me quote Mark's comments:
> Here are the key differences between the online and offline versions of
> Solar Accounts:
>
> 1. The offline version costs a one-off
Hi Ian,
With regard to internet connectivity, we plan to add an 'offline session' feature to Solar Accounts Online by April 2016. This will allow you to work without needing an internet connection after you log in, so perhaps it would be suitable in your case. (Although you will still need a connection to initially log in).
Regarding support for our software, we actually haven't changed our support policy - the software licence for the offline version of Solar Accounts has never included support. Although we have always offered free support to all our users, this has been with the condition that it may be withdrawn at any time. The online version simply offers a guarantee of support for the length of your subscription.
Regards,
> With regard to internet connectivity, we plan to add an 'offline session' feature to
> Solar Accounts Online by April 2016. This will allow you to work without needing
> an internet connection after you log in, so perhaps it would be suitable in your case.
> (Although you will still need a connection to initially log in).
How would that work? I'm not ruling out the on-line version but I need to know more to discover if it would work for my scenario.
Do you have to log-in every time your pc is rebooted or is login in a one time task at set up? My laptop can go literally months without ever being on line. (Most recent time I let it go on line was mid August) I only use it when I am away from home (when I am away from home is when I don't have any internet access). I have an external HDD with my critical data that moves between the desktop system and the laptop.
If work is done off line - how would I copy that data back to my main system? Will there still be a local .slr file?
Also concerned
As a Mac user I opted for Solar because most other options were cloud/subscription based which I did not want.
I can live without free support but with every update to Mac OS there is a real risk that an unsupported offline version will suddenly cease to function.
Happy to pay for occasional updates to my offline version but as a small one person business with few transactions,
I agree with Nick Grant's concern. I have used the offline version successfully for four years. I have a limited number of transactions and value the simplicity and ability to get simple support from Mark.
I am left with a feeling that I am being forced towards paying a monthly fee having already paid a capital sum to purchase. That was my initial reason for purchasing what has been a very good product.
I wonder what will happen next time I upgrade my mac operating system. Will that be supported in the offline version Mark?
Hi Nick,
I'm sorry to hear that the online version is too expensive for you - we hope to change your mind in future as we add new features (including an upcoming Android version).
However, there's no need for you to switch to the online version - your current software licence allows you to use the offline version forever. Keep in mind that you will need to ensure that your computer meets the operating system requirements described on this page:
https://www.solaraccounts.co.uk/download.php?online=false
We plan to release new offline versions of Solar Accounts to be compatible with the latest Mac and Windows operating systems until at least May 2017. After that you will need to avoid upgrading to a new major version of the operating system to ensure you can run the offline version of Solar Accounts.
Regards,
Hi Bill,
The 'capital sum' you mention covered the software licence, but it did not cover the technical support you have received for the past 4 years - that has been free. I think it's reasonable for us to say that in future we may withdraw a service that we currently offer for free.
Regarding the software you purchased, there's no need for you to switch to the online version - your current software licence allows you to use the offline version forever. Keep in mind that you will need to ensure that your computer meets the operating system requirements described on this page:
https://www.solaraccounts.co.uk/download.php?online=false
We plan to release new offline versions of Solar Accounts to be compatible with the latest Mac and Windows operating systems until May 2017. After that you will need to avoid upgrading to a new major version of the operating system to ensure you can run the offline version of Solar Accounts.
Regards,
Hi Mark
There seems to be a continuing and constant groundswell of disatisfaction with the decision to (ultimately) discontinue the offline version of Solar, Much greater level of posts than there ever were from pro online requests!
What level of currently active offline licences (and I assume you can assess this from number of persons downloading upgrades) moving to online is required to make it viable? Is it meeting your projections? Will you reconsider the stratergy if uptake is not enough?
I think this is the most significant comment I have read....
> We plan to release new offline versions of Solar Accounts to be compatible with
> the latest Mac and Windows operating systems until May 2017. After that you will
> need to avoid upgrading to a new major version of the operating system to ensure
> you can run the offline version of Solar Accounts.
Thank you for telling us this Mark. It is useful to know that those of us who CANNOT use the on-line version have 17 months to find a new accounts package. It's a great shame - I like Solar Accounts but this looks like the end of the line for me.
Hi Simon,
After providing constant feature upgrades for the offline version of Solar Accounts for the past 7 years, many people have come to expect this will continue in future so I understand it is disappointing to hear we will now only focus on developing the online version.
I'm afraid I cannot provide you with figures about the number of offline users who switch to the online version, but we are happy with our current sales level so I think it is very unlikely that we will change our strategy - sorry.
Regards,
Hi Ian,
Keep in mind that if you delay upgrading the major version of your operating system after May 2017 then you can continue using the old version of Solar Accounts for many years.
When you do upgrade your operating system, please take another look at Solar Accounts Online - you may find that improved internet connectivity and/or the 'offline session' feature means it is then a valid option.
Regards
Hi Mark,
The reason I am very jittery about this is because of what happened with my previous accounts package. I had to upgrade my OS in order to continue running some business critical software. That upgrade caused my accounts package to stop running and the supplier wanted me to pay a significant fee for the 'latest and greatest' version of the software with a whole load of new features that were not applicable to my business and a promise that I would have to continue to pay on a regular basis for features I was never going to use. At that point I jumped ship and rather than be held to ransom I bought Solar Accounts which has been a much better fit for my business.
Part of my business involves training people on Adobe software - I have to keep my OS up to date - no client wants to be trained on old versions of software running on an out of date OS. I can only delay my OS upgrade for a limited time. So the reality may be that I am ok for 17months... or 20 months... or 2 years or may be even longer. But I have to assume worse case scenario and I have to assume I only have 17 months.
I don't want to be caught in a situation again where I HAVE to upgrade my OS for one business critical package and CAN'T upgrade because of another. With 17 months notice I have the time to 'shop around' and look for a different package. And I can plan to do the migration at a time that makes sense rather than like last time when I HAD to do it immediately because year end and tax returns were imminent. So once again thank you for being upfront about it and keeping us informed, I genuinely appreciate the advanced warning.
I don't want to leave.but I don't really have a choice, unless Solar Account looks to continue to develop the offline version. I, like others have commented here, would be happy to pay for an upgrade every once in a while - in fact I am very surprised that there hasn't been a paid upgrade in the last 5 years. I'll make one last appeal - please reconsider the move to offline only. It appears from this forum that I am not the only one who either can't or doesn't want to go that route.
Hi Ian,
Thanks for your feedback - yes I can see why you are so concerned about having to find new accounting software within the next year and a half. It seems your situation is unusual because (a) you must upgrade your operating system; and (b) your internet is not reliable and cheap; and (c) our proposed 'offline session' feature is unsuitable in your case. However, most other users will have at least one of these options available so it is unlikely that we will reconsider our strategy - sorry.
Regards,
Hi,
As Microsoft have indicated Windows 10 is the 'last' windows as we know it, and we do not change to a Windows 11 etc then the promise of Solar working with the current Windows 10 might be longer than you think Mark?
I mean what constitutes an OS upgrade say from Win10?
Hi Reg,
Yes you are correct - it appears that Microsoft will deliver major updates to Windows 10 instead of creating Windows 11. Therefore we will not be able to support all versions of Windows 10 in future. Instead, we will identify the supported OS version using either the minor version number (eg. 10.1, 10.2, etc) or by date (eg. "We support Windows 10 if it was last updated before May 2017").
Regards,
I agree with Ian Mark. You've priced yourself out of the market as you can get much powerful accounts program for less. Christ i can even get Photoshop for less than this !!!. It would have been better at the start to price for major upgrades to the offline version and you would get people willing to pay for things they will use (me for one). I pity the people who bought your product before the change. With me I've used this for over 5 years and will look for options to change, but hey ho its no big deal
Paul
An update to users reading this forum topic:
I mentioned above that we were working on an 'offline mode' for Solar Accounts Online and we hoped to have it available in April 2016. Unfortunately due to unforeseen circumstances we have had to postpone implentation of this feature, and we cannot say when it will be available. Sorry.
Only just seen this thread and quite honestly it stinks!
I only wanted an invoicing package and I have no need for online accounting.
I will be looking for another alternative simply because I cannot have one piece of insignificant software dictating whether I can update my OS.
Hello Tony,
I'm sorry you are disappointed, but I think it stems from a misunderstanding about your purchase of a Solar Accounts licence. As mentioned in the licence agreement and in our online FAQ page (available at www.solaraccounts.co.uk/faq.php ) your purchase did not include any guarantee about future upgrades. Despite this, we have provided you with several years worth of free upgrades and technical support - in my view you received good value for the
Oh no! Just read these posts with mounting dismay! I too have used Solar for years, but was "forced" into using an online package (Xero) for one of my clients and so decided to change everything over to Xero. Having had some major problems with that package, I was hoping to change all but this one client back on to Solar. But with major concerns about the possibility of Solar not working with future upgrades to operating systems, and the lack of some very basic facilities to the online version - such as not being able to download bank statements directly - I too am now looking for a different accounts package. Sorry Solar!
I've been running Solar Accounts for a few years now and used to recommend it / sell it as part of the commission package.
Having supported clients using Sage I have no plans to change. Looking at the lifespan cycles my guess is (and it is a guess) we should be okay until October 2018 with the currently version of Solar / Windows 10.
If it happens sooner my plan is to buy an old laptop for
This is a shame. I am semi retired but I use Solar accounts for my couple of proper tie rentals. A little bit of Amazon selling and the day a week I still do as a gas engineer to support my pension.
Clearly this software is now priced out for me, this happened once before with Dosh Software and I got caught out. I will have to use this time to find an alternative.
Its a nuisance more than anything because now I will have to learn all over again. I would have been happy to pay for updates because
personally, I needed an offline version, as the places I can work are without mobile signals, let alone quality internet.
secondly, I have no desire to share my information. I am sure Solar are safe, But, like google... apple... etc, i save/share nothing with them, and store all on my own server for my own backups etc...
I prefer to buy the product, and don't even look at monthly subscription stuff....
regards
rob
I too am disappointed with the termination of the offline version. And I'm certainly not happy with storing my data on your servers.
I have rubbish internet connections here in the Scottish islands and this situation is unlikely to improve in the near future. With the offline version, if the computer died, I just re-install on another system and off I went.
With the online version I have a continuing unwanted cost (as opposed to paying an upgrade cost when it suited me), the risk of the system being unavailable for long periods (phone lines take 2 or 3 weeks to repair here and weather damage is almost a monthly occurrence somewhere here during winter) and the risk that using your online version presents, this would make you my most major single point of failure for my entire business. About the worst case scenario ever for disaster recovery.
Looks like I'm on the search for a replacement true offline software accounts package again. To ensure operational compatibility with my business, computer systems and disaster recovery plans.
The idea that the Internet as the worlds most perfect, safe and reliable place is a very dangerous concept. Regardless of what you say, you can not guarantee the security of my data or availability - this would just be a false hope and a blatant lie. Just look at Yahoo and their half-a-billion user detail hack. Or the cloud funded Internet connected pet feeder - pets died because their servers went down. Lemmings on the cliff edge of cloud security, along with the IoT are two of the biggest internet failures that is going to plague us for the next 10years, or more.
Sophisticated hacking and system take-downs are on the increase. The bigger the host you use for hosting your online version, the more likely they will be hacked. And the smaller the online host, the more likely it is to fail due to poor policies and investments, especially own hosted systems.
I will remain with you for as long as I can, especially if you return to the land of real programs. But I will now be looking elsewhere (deep sigh).
Hi Adam,
Yes, I agree that the online version of Solar Accounts is not suitable in your case because you have an unreliable internet connection.
With regard to security, we don't claim to offer perfect security but our online system is far stronger than most websites, including Yahoo. The reason is simple: we encrypt all your data and our online servers do not have the ability to decrypt that data (except for emails). For any security researchers reading this we offer a bug bounty if you can prove otherwise: https://www.solaraccounts.co.uk/security.php
Interestingly, Yahoo's chief information security officer pushed for 'end-to-end encryption' which is a similar security model to ours, but was rejected because Yahoo wanted the ability to search and index their user's data:
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/29/technology/yahoo-data-breach-hacking.html
Unlike Yahoo, we prioritise strong security over our ability to search your data.
I know this is hard to believe, but in some ways the online version of Solar Accounts actually offers better security than the offline version. This is because the offline version stores your financial data in 'plain text' on your computer's hard drive, so your data would be accessible to (a) a computer virus that can scan your hard drive; (b) a thief who steals your computer. The online version of Solar Accounts protects against both these threats by using your password to encrypt the data it stores on your hard drive. But since you must use the offline version, for maximum security you should only run it on a computer that is never connected to internet, and use full-disk encryption with a strong password.
Regards,
Dear Mark,
After wrestling with this a while now I thought I'd post.
As you may recall I've been using Solar Accounts for myself and my small clients since 2011; some 5 years or so. I'm a chartered accountant and have a myriad of contractor clients in the UK and NZ. During that time I've sold 47 of my small clients on Solar Accounts, who have enjoyed the product immensely.
After spending some months talking with clients about the online proposal and new fee structure, I'm sorry to say that I've been instructed by all but one client to find another offline solution. The reasons are many and, to name but a few, include: too expensive (39/46), need for internet connection (24/46), worried about data security (34/46), worried the online package will be unstable (26/46).
I relayed all the information you've shared to alleviate concerns, however these attempts have been unsuccessful. Interestingly, all 47 clients expressed (via my blind questionnaire on this topic) that they would have paid between £55-£70 per year for continued updates to the offline product, rather than pay for the online product. I should mention that all are registered for VAT (or GST in NZ) so this is a factor. It may surprise you to learn that I had adapted Solar to my 12 NZ clients and it has worked more than perfectly for that purpose for some time (though a warning to others: you need to know what you're doing to achieve this end).
I now have a task in the coming months to find an alternative offline product and migrate all my clients across; though I expect this will become reasonably quick once I have written a suitable ETL tool.
May I say it has been an absolute pleasure over the years and I wish you very well in your future business endeavours.
Mark,
I was wrestling with whether to mention this in the previous post and have decided to do so. I share this from the perspective of being a great fan of your product and wanting it to succeed, not from the perspective of advocating your competition. I believe your product has the potential to be superior in every way...
The one small business client (out of the 47) who didn't want to find another offline solution has opted instead to move to Xero as opposed to buying the online Solar Accounts product. Her reasons were value for money related, when comparing the functionality that online Solar offers vs. her chosen Xero subscription.
She was adamantly of the opinion that for ever so slightly more per month (within my practice price) Xero provided better functionality for her business (multi currency and bank statement upload being the biggest incentive in her case). I couldn't argue with this logic, so support her choice at this point in time.
I will say though that I don't see there being an avalanche of my non-Xero small business clients moving in that direction however, as for most they aren't looking for that complexity. They want simplicity and Solar gives them that. That said, if your strategy is to move away from these smaller clients and go after the same market as Xero, then customer choices like this may become more frequent.
These are just my own thoughts and experiences, however I share them just the same.
Hi Angel,
Thanks for taking the time to query your clients and give us your feedback - it has given us a lot to think about! I will get back to you with a more detailed response in the next few days.
Cheers
Hi Angel,
Thanks again for your feedback - it's painful but important for us to hear that so many of your users are unwilling to switch to the online version of Solar Accounts.
With regard to price, keep in mind that we offer a 30% discount if you use Solar Accounts Online to manage at least 8 businesses. In future we may also offer an additional discount for users who switch from the old offline version, but I doubt that the discount would be as large as you suggest. We don't want to position our software as the cheapest in the market - instead, our aim is to be the easiest to use and most secure.
With regard to security of online data, your email has prompted us to change direction slightly. We are now planning to add an option to allow a user to store their financial data only on their computer - no business data will be sent to our online systems except for the business name and whether it is registered for VAT (which we need for billing purposes). This option would also allow the user to work without an internet connection for up to 15 days, so it would go a long way to address concerns of users who don't have a reliable internet connection.
Note that we plan to release maintenance updates for the old offline version until at least 2019, so you will likely be able to run it on the latest versions of MacOS and Windows for a few years more. In that time we expect to add an 'import bank statement' feature to the online version.
With all this in mind, we hope that eventually we will be able to get some of your clients to switch to the new version of Solar Accounts.
Regards,
I keep watching and reading this thread I started a year ago... It makes for interesting reading!
Mark, I am very interested in the comment you posted above. ie
> We are now planning to add an option to allow a user to store their financial
> data only on their computer - no business data will be sent to our online systems
> except for the business name and whether it is registered for VAT (which we
> need for billing purposes). This option would also allow the user to work
> without an internet connection for up to 15 days, so it would go a long way to
> address concerns of users who don't have a reliable internet connection."
This does go a long way to address some of my concerns. Would this enable me to store the data on an external drive, which I can then move between home system and laptop, for when I am traveling?
Also, do you have any indication as to when that functionality will be available - I noted in your one of your comments in the thread that you had suspended work on the functionality to enable users of the on-line version to work offline.
I am also encouraged by your comment about promising maintenance release till 2019 for the off-line version. Maybe.... just maybe.... I won't need to jump ship after all!!
Hi Ian,
I'm glad to hear you are encouraged by our planned offline feature and the extension of maintenance releases. Most likely to transfer your offline data you will need to log into Computer A, switch to online mode, then log into Computer B and switch to offline mode.
Also keep in mind that you will still need internet access to log in, so the period when you don't need internet access will be from just after you log in until you shut down the Solar Accounts window. If you want to work offline over several days you will need to put your computer into 'sleep' mode when you aren't using it to avoid closing the Solar Accounts window.
Unfortunately we can't say when we expect to release this feature - sorry.
Regards,
I have just read this forum.
I used to use and recommend Solar Accounts to clients in the past when you just bought Solar Accounts software as a one payment and used it on a PC.
Clients found it quite simple to use and as a business consultant found it easy to set things up for my clients.
I have clients that do not have internet connection for internet all the time or don't want to be connected online for security reasons.
I get the impression that if you buy the "offline" version you still have to be connected to the internet to log on.
Is that the case?
I clearly remember the old version did not have to be logged onto the internet to be able to open up and use.
I also recall the price was only £120 one off payment for use on up to 3 PCs and unlimited companies.
Is this old version for total offline use still available for £120.
Regards.................................Johny
Hi John,
Yes the new online version requires an internet connection at all times. We hope to add a feature that allows you to store the data offline but you will still need an internet connection to log in from time to time.
The old offline version does not require an internet connection (except to download the installation program). You can still download it here:
https://www.solaraccounts.co.uk/download.php?online=false
You can purchase a licence for the offline version here:
https://www.solaraccounts.co.uk/purchase.php?online=false
However, note that we are no longer adding new features to the offline version. If you want to upgrade in future you would need to switch to the online version.
Regards,
Folks,
We've just released a new version which allows you to store your financial data completely offline. I think this goes a long way to addressing two big problems that existing users have voiced when considering the switch to Solar Accounts Online:
Users don't want to put their sensitive financial data in the cloud. Now, when you set up your account in Solar Accounts Online you get the option of storing your data completely offline - your data will never be sent to our online systems (except for your VAT registration status, which we need for billing purposes).
Users don't have a reliable connection. Now, after you log in you can access your data in 'offline mode' which allows you to work without needing an internet connection. If you restart Solar Accounts you will need an internet connection to log in again, but if you put your computer in sleep mode without closing Solar Accounts then you can work offline for many days or weeks.
I hope this gives some of you a reason to take another look at Solar Accounts 'Online'.
Regards,
Forgive a simple 'plumber' for being a bit thick about these things, it seems to my simplistic way of thinking that if all the necessary code and data is on the users machine to allow it to run for days/weeks is this not essentially the offline product with an occasional login so you can mange licence/billing???
Sounds to me like the product has come full circle but has probably lost a number of clients along the way :-(
How does the system sync what two (or more) offline users have been doing while offline?
If you opt to store data locally does this restrict the multi user facility?
Simon
Hi Simon,
Yes, from a user's perspective we have essentially come full circle, although the underlying code to write to local disk has been completely rewritten. Keep in mind that the online version still has a number of benefits which are not available in the old version:
https://www.solaraccounts.co.uk/switch-to-online.php
Another benefit is that offline mode in Solar Accounts Online is more secure - this is because it encrypts your business data when stored on disk, protecting you from thieves or hackers who gain access to your hard drive.
I don't think we've lost too many users - they've just delayed upgrading to Solar Accounts 'Online'. (By the way we are considering changing the name to something more anodyne like 'Solar Accounts Pro')
Regarding sync: In offline mode you can only access your business from one computer. So if you are working in offline mode on Computer A then you cannot access the business on Computer B. The simplest solution is to switch to 'online' mode on Computer A, then log in using Computer B and switch back to 'offline' mode. (If you want to keep your data out of the cloud, an alternative approach is to create a backup file on Computer A then transfer the backup file to Computer B, then import the backup file into a new business on Computer B, then delete the old business).
Regards,
Hi Carolyn,
Just in case you are still considering Solar Accounts, our latest release allows you to import bank statements in .qif and .ofx format. You can try it out here:
https://www.solaraccounts.co.uk/download.php?online=true
Regards,
Just to add my 2p.
I bought Solar accounts a few years ago because I did not want to be held to ransom by cloud based accounting packages. Despite me moving to an offline system, I STILL have to pay Kashflow as they hold all my accounts which I need to keep for 6 years.
I will NOT cripple my OS in order to keep Solar running so it it ever stops being compatible with my OS then Solar will loose me as a customer.
I don't expect free support and neither do I expect free updates forever, but I will NEVER pay a monthly subscription to access my accounts.
